Inappropriate workplace advances

May 19, 2012 at 12:46 am 2 comments

So guys, what do women think of your inappropriate workplace advances?

Listen to a friend’s story about an incident that happened to her a couple weeks ago.

“I have this client. He’s been a client of mine for a little over a year when I was just freelancing, and now he’s a client [for my new business]. He often says things that are quite inappropriate, but I just ignore them and stay professional and business-focused. That’s always worked.

Well he’s been trying to get me to go out to dinner with him for a long time to discuss a project he has for [my business]. I kept trying to change it to lunch, but eventually caved and agreed to dinner…this past Thursday.

Dinner went fine, conversation was mostly professional and he did have a real project for [my business] to work on. There was a little personal conversation sprinkled in about kids and his wife of 35 years, the house they just bought, etc. So when we left, he said he’d walk me to my car. When we got there, he gave me a hug (which I’m okay with), but then tried to lean in to kiss me on my lips!!!

I immediately turned my cheek so the kiss landed there instead. I firmly said, ‘Thank you for dinner. Good night.’

I did NOTHING to make him think kissing me was okay. What on earth was he thinking?

I’m sure it happens to a lot of women all the time. It’s not the first time it’s happened to me. I’m usually really careful about who I go to business meetings with because many times it’s just the guy wanting to spend time with me and get to know me – not my business offerings. So I only [have face-to-face meetings] when I know the person is a decent guy or serious about commissioning our services, [otherwise] I keep everything virtual.

And not to mention this guy’s daughter is the exact same age as me! Sickening!”

So guys, what do women think of your inappropriate workplace advances? They are disgusted by such nonsense. Women do not go to their workplace to be groped and to hear ridiculous quips about their body parts or what they are wearing.

I know full well that most of the men reading this column who are egotistical enough to be guilty of workplace sexual harassment will say to themselves that women do not react to their advances like my friend who was revolted by what happened to her. Again, these narcissists are so very wrong.

Most women typically react to workplace harassment the same way my friend said she did when the fool mentioned above would say inappropriate things: she just ignored the harassment and tried to stay focused on business. I hate that women feel they must play dumb about these things to maintain a professional relationship.

Guys, women don’t want your advances at the workplace; they think those advances a waste of their time and energy when they are trying to get things done on the job. Moreover, when on a job, a professional woman’s focus is not romantic; it is on the task at hand.

Now I know some egotistical guys think women do nothing else but sit and think about “mack daddy” all day long and wait with bated breath for them to walk by with a statement that will objectify women and reduce them to sex objects instead of capable humans with a keen brain. But, let me let you in on a little secret…once again you are wrong.

Instead, the ladies in the workplace gather and talk about how silly you look when you try to “mack” and laugh behind your back because you think you have “game.” There are other ladies who find it downright offensive when you treat them like a potential sexual conquest instead of a co-worker on equal intellectual footing.

More often than not, women go to their girlfriends and relay the whole disgusting incident (like my friend did) and the exchange of information is not flattering for the guy at all. So while you go around thinking your mack-daddy-ness is making the ladies swoon, you are actually the creepy clown that the women try to avoid.

You see, it is not “cool” to be disrespectful to women and until you can approach a woman with the respect due her and her position within the workplace, your childish antics will forever put you in a designated spot of avoidance and women will not take you seriously on any level.

In order to gain respect, a person must be willing to give respect. Women who respect themselves would never find sexual harassment to be endearing or respond to it in a positive manner.

Men who inflict sexual harassment on women are endured to keep the peace or to keep a job, but not because women are okay with the harassment.

Guys, keep this in mind the next time you want to harass a woman. Instead, grow up and talk to women with respect. If you treat women with respect and they will reciprocate.

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Entry filed under: equality, feminism, feminist, Stella Ramsaroop, women's health, women's issues. Tags: .

Bad Romances There will be blood

2 Comments Add your own

  • 1. G  |  April 30, 2016 at 7:17 pm

    “Guys, women don’t want your advances at the workplace; they think those advances a waste of their time and energy when they are trying to get things done on the job.”

    Look, I agree that inappropriate comments are, well, inappropriate. And also, there are certainly outspoken, irritating, and self-righteous people in this world whom we grudgingly tolerate on a regular basis. I sympathize with everything your friend went through.

    But it’s been shown that more relationships and marriages begin at school and work than at any other single (no pun intended) place.

    The inappropriate comments are wrong and indicative of someone who is very likely not a nice person.

    But don’t lose sight of the fact that you and your friend are clearly being judgmental as to what age difference is appropriate and as to his presumed desire for an affair (how do you know he and his wife do not have an open relationship or an “understanding?”). Does your friend not see him as “relationship material”? Obviously. Did he make a move and summarily get rejected? Yes.

    However, the title of your article is “Inappropriate Workplace Advances,” not “Case Study of a Guy Who Makes An Idiot Of Himself and then Tries to Start Something Romantic with My Friend, Who Is Way Out of His League.”

    So let’s zoom out for a minute: if this individual had instead been someone your friend had considered desirable — a potential partner — his making a “move” could be romantic, and even life-changing in a positive sense. In fact, if the hypothetical “desirable male” DIDN’T make a move, TWO people may have missed out on something very special.

    Like I pointed out, relationships and marriages begin at work. Lots of them. Some (many?) of which are healthy, meaningful, passionate, lifelong…all of these wonderful things.

    So don’t extrapolate this whole experience to be indicative of the entire idea of two people meeting at the workplace and coming together romantically. There was an A-hole who hit on your friend. Bummer. Inappropriate comments suck. HE probably sucks as a human being. But, placing the particulars of this case aside, western society DOES have an overriding tendency to place the onus on the male as far as initial communication between potential partners, and certainly insofar as turning those communications from social to romantic (i.e.: “making the first move”). I believe that the attitudes evidenced here are indicative, unfortunately, of a thought process which is counterproductive in that it sets up liberated (or, really, all) females to be victimized by hypergamy — for our purposes, defined as choosiness to the point of creating a power gradient based on perceived social strata in the dating world which results in an extreme concentration of sexual opportunity for males at the top (“high-value” males, often alpha-) with dramatically lowered opportunity within other strata (esp. beta males). Unfortunately, the “strata” here are defined through social factors that may have little or nothing to do with what could make someone a decent, loving, long-term partner.

    Prediction: Your “friend” will give passive signals to the brash, outgoing, attractive guy in Sales who has a lot of confidence (read: looks, money, status, charisma — all-around “cool” guy), and he will know how to read those signals, since he already has a lot of notches (previous sexual partners) from having successfully read those signals before. He will play whatever game she sets up for him — steamy liaison, dinner date, whatever — and will exude “confidence” even she’s not sexual on the first, second, or third date because, well, he has five other girls he’s texting with the same “confident” message (“confident” because he has “walk-away power” from living with an abundance mentality — if any doesn’t work out, he will take her out of the rotation), and again, on top of being genuinely cool and fun, he is specifically merging positive aspects of his personality with her perception to create the “right” impression. And she will be texting you, her relatives, and all her buddies about how great this guy is and how “finally I met a dynamic man who doesn’t just want me for sex,” or whatever.

    This guy is in the locker room at the gym, chatting about “girls” with the guys, talking about how he is going to “nail” your friend, or whether he is going to see that “hot girl from the office” or the “cutie from the club” this weekend. Or maybe he can work in BOTH…

    Trust me. I have heard that conversation WAY too many times. High-value guys aren’t exactly going to let you on to all this, but they’ll talk to their buddies about it. Don’t hate on them — there’s nothing wrong with desiring sex, and we are talking about people who are just really good at creating multiple options and opportunities over a span of time. And, honestly, some of these people (the quarterback-in-high-school types), when they finally settle down, can build meaningful partnerships. But it is typical for them to spend a decade or so basically “hogging” the dating market in their age group, with the converse being that females on the other end of the experience may spend an awful lot of time with men who, by life-design and intention, are more dynamic, desirable, and “fun,” but also less ready to give of themselves as human beings in a relationship context.

    Because while your friend is sending smiley-lovey emojis to Mr. Sales (who might have his phone on silent because he is finally banging the “cutie from the club,”) that nice, shy, kinda good-looking-in-a-nerdy-way, reserved, decent guy in Accounting who just got out of only the third relationship he has ever had in his entire life (with his college sweetheart), who has zero experience “game” (thus coming off awkward and inconfident in conversation), REALLY likes your friend and would give anything to have the courage to even talk to her, let alone ask her out, just read your article and decided that he can’t make a move on someone he works with.

    Bummer.

  • 2. G  |  April 30, 2016 at 10:31 pm

    “Guys, women don’t want your advances at the workplace; they think those advances a waste of their time and energy when they are trying to get things done on the job.”

    Look, I agree that inappropriate comments are, well, inappropriate. And also, there are certainly outspoken, irritating, and self-righteous people in this world whom we grudgingly tolerate on a regular basis. I sympathize with everything your friend went through.

    But it’s been shown that more relationships and marriages begin at school and work than at any other single (no pun intended) place.

    The inappropriate comments are wrong and indicative of someone who is very likely not a nice person.

    But don’t lose sight of the fact that you and your friend are clearly being judgmental as to what age difference is appropriate and as to his presumed desire for an affair (how do you know he and his wife do not have an open relationship or an “understanding?”). Does your friend not see him as “relationship material”? Obviously. Did he make a move and summarily get rejected? Yes.

    However, the title of your article is “Inappropriate Workplace Advances,” not “Case Study of a Guy Who Makes An Idiot Of Himself and then Tries to Start Something Romantic with My Friend, Who Is Way Out of His League.”

    So let’s zoom out for a minute: if this individual had instead been someone your friend had considered desirable — a potential partner — his making a “move” could be romantic, and even life-changing in a positive sense. In fact, if the hypothetical “desirable male” DIDN’T make a move, TWO people may have missed out on something very special.

    Like I pointed out, relationships and marriages begin at work. Lots of them. Some (many?) of which are healthy, meaningful, passionate, lifelong…all of these wonderful things.

    So don’t extrapolate this whole experience to be indicative of the entire idea of two people meeting at the workplace and coming together romantically. There was an A-hole who hit on your friend. Bummer. Inappropriate comments suck. HE probably sucks as a human being. But, placing the particulars of this case aside, western society DOES have an overriding tendency to place the onus on the male as far as initial communication between potential partners, and certainly insofar as turning those communications from social to romantic (i.e.: “making the first move”). I believe that the attitudes evidenced here are indicative, unfortunately, of a thought process which is counterproductive in that it sets up liberated (or, really, all) females to be victimized by hypergamy — for our purposes, defined as choosiness to the point of creating a power gradient based on perceived social strata in the dating world which results in an extreme concentration of sexual opportunity for males at the top (“high-value” males, often alpha-) with dramatically lowered opportunity within other strata (esp. beta males). Unfortunately, the “strata” here are defined through social factors that may have little or nothing to do with what could make someone a decent, loving, long-term partner.

    Prediction: Your “friend” will give passive signals to the brash, outgoing, attractive guy in Sales who has a lot of confidence (read: looks, money, status, charisma — all-around “cool” guy), and he will know how to read those signals, since he already has a lot of notches (previous sexual partners) from having successfully read those signals before. He will play whatever game she sets up for him — steamy liaison, dinner date, whatever — and will exude “confidence” even she’s not sexual on the first, second, or third date because, well, he has five other girls he’s texting with the same “confident” message (“confident” because he has “walk-away power” from living with an abundance mentality — if any doesn’t work out, he will take her out of the rotation), and again, on top of being genuinely cool and fun, he is specifically merging positive aspects of his personality with her perception to create the “right” impression. And she will be texting you, her relatives, and all her buddies about how great this guy is and how “finally I met a dynamic man who doesn’t just want me for sex,” or whatever.

    This guy is in the locker room at the gym, chatting about “girls” with the guys, talking about how he is going to “nail” your friend, or whether he is going to see that “hot girl from the office” or the “cutie from the club” this weekend. Or maybe he can work in BOTH…

    Trust me. I have heard that conversation WAY too many times. High-value guys aren’t exactly going to let you on to all this, but they’ll talk to their buddies about it. Don’t hate on them — there’s nothing wrong with desiring sex, and we are talking about people who are just really good at creating multiple options and opportunities over a span of time. And, honestly, some of these people (the quarterback-in-high-school types), when they finally settle down, can build meaningful partnerships. But it is typical for them to spend a decade or so basically “hogging” the dating market in their age group, with the converse being that females on the other end of the experience may spend an awful lot of time with men who, by life-design and intention, are more dynamic, desirable, and “fun,” but also less ready to give of themselves as human beings in a relationship context.

    Now, who’s to say your friend wouldn’t like that…let’s see…fun dates, sex (or “no sex”) on demand, good company, fewer relationship hassles, open scheduling (compared to maintaining a relationship in which the two people involved actually care to be around each other and supportive of one another’s needs, even during downtime or during more stressful moments)…I wouldn’t begrudge someone taking to that lifestyle as a choice. But let’s call it for what it is and not complain ten years later when your friend fails in finding a “life partner” (maybe even a father for her kids, if that’s her vision) despite actually genuinely desiring that sort of connection.

    Because while your friend is sending smiley-lovey emojis to Mr. Sales (who might have his phone on silent because he is finally banging the “cutie from the club,”) that nice, shy, kinda good-looking-in-a-nerdy-way, reserved, decent guy in Accounting who just got out of only the third relationship he has ever had in his entire life (with his college sweetheart), who has zero experience with “game” (thus coming off awkward and inconfident in conversation), REALLY likes your friend and would give anything to have the courage to even talk to her, let alone ask her out, just read your article and decided that he can’t make a move on someone he works with.

    Bummer.

    ADDENDUM

    Whatever you may think about (heterosexual) guys and their thought processes, actions, etc., we live in a world that, socially speaking, responds in an entirely different way to us than it does to women.

    I think the most apt comparison would be the notion of “white privilege” (in the context of American race relations).

    For all the complaints, some valid, about the “glass ceiling” and lack of pay equity and upward mobility in the workforce (by the way, these facets of American society have improved dramatically in the last four decades), I can hardly think of a social situation which treats femininity in a negative way vis-a-vis masculinity.

    And all of this happens in a way which, like white privilege, is relatively transparent to the beneficiary.

    A woman asks a stranger for a favor, or directions, or a help with a mechanical device (car, cell phone, etc.), and is generally aided happily. Try being a guy walking into these kinds of social situations — trust me, you’d have to defuse all kinds of awkwardness and give subliminal and not-so-subliminal reassurances just to get someone to put their walls down enough for a minute just to help you. And that’s on a good day — most of the time, you will be summarily dismissed. I have plenty of minority guy friends (I consider myself mixed-race, but the outside world basically sees me as caucasian), and cutting through these notions is twice as hard for them.

    Is that puppy cute? Is that baby cute? Say something to its mom, or dad — if you’re a girl, it’s considered a nice comment taken with a smile. If you’re a guy, saying something as simple as, “hey, who’s the pretty little girl?” makes you sound like an absolute weirdo (unless you’re related to the person or something).

    And that is the important difference here. The world has a tendency to smile on the female. A man, not so much…

    Do you want to step out for the evening? I heard that nightclub downtown is the place to be, and they have a great DJ tonight. As a “dude,” good luck getting in if you don’t know somebody. EVERY elite club instructs people at the door to keep the ratio of girls/guys at even or better. If your business involves networking AT ALL, then being a guy pretty much locks you out of being able to flow in and out of these places with any kind of mobility (unless you have achieved serious status or have “star power” or something). It is not uncommon for guys to have to pay literally thousands of dollars to get a table at a high-end club for themselves and a couple of buddies to relax and have a couple of drinks at. But any female can walk in or out of the same scene at will; usually the most she’d have to do is abide by the dress code. This factor alone would confer an absolutely huge advantage on a female up-and-comer in media, entertainment, politics, marketing, etc. Don’t pretend that it’s some “boys’ club” — if you want to play with that idea at the CEO level, fine, you may be right, but all of those people are from a previous generation and live in a world pretty much removed from ours. If I had a screenplay, or a show idea, or if I was fresh out of journalism school and wanting to break in as a political reporter or behind the scenes, I would want to be where I could network with the people in those respective industries after hours. And, trust me, a guy at a table with bottle service (or a notable mid-level exec at the bar) will tend to welcome a girl coming to sit down, purely socially, just to pitch an idea and get a reaction. He will tell the “dude” who wants to do the same exact thing to send him an email (and MAYBE he’ll read it). By the way, this notion is DOUBLY true if the mid-level exec is female.

    And let’s explore the notion of dating. It is generally assumed that women, by and large, have a slightly lower need for sex than men, although this may vary between individuals. But let’s take it as an assumption — the high ratio of presence of alternate outlets for male heterosexual expression vs. presence of alternate outlets for female heterosexual expression (let’s take this to include things along the lines of pornography, venues for nude/explicit appearances/performances, etc.) validates that assumption. Additionally, a whistleblower at AshleyMadison.com confirmed that there were SO many more “male seeking female” users than “female seeking male” users that it became corporate policy to create fake “female seeking male” profiles just to make it appear that the ratio was close enough to being even to make a purchase of access on behalf of the male worthwhile.

    So a female, in the dating world, by birthright — by virtue of biology and culture both — operates sexually, socially, and otherwise, in a world in which the “abundance mentality” is pretty much an absolute given. In fact, the common complaint from women is that they get TOO much attention! OK, there are some irritating people out there (male AND female), but note the important concept here: the female in the dating world lives with a cornucopia of options consistently presenting themselves. It may be that the “high value male” (a “cool” guy, possibly alpha, with some status, some resources, and the power to create “fun” options) represents a fun “date.” Great — text him, decide preemptively if sex is desired or not, if not, bring the girlfriends along and get ready to party, while you tell him, “you know, I really like you…as a FRIEND” as he pays for your bar tab. Heck, if he takes you to the right place, you might meet that someone (male or female) at that company you were trying to get your resume into, or you might get attention from a guy you REALLY like! All the while, options to express sexuality will be in the background, and if you want to indulge, great, if not, too bad for him! If this seems superficial (and it probably is, but I know plenty of actually intelligent girls who exploit this dynamic, unintentionally or otherwise), then say, “let’s maybe see a movie and hit a late night cafe.” Done! Then sit there and discuss politics, religion, whatever you want! He’ll listen and react in interesting (hopefully) ways, because if he knows anything about dating, he’ll know that 1) the first rule is to be a good listener, and 2) his presence in your life is being judged right now insofar as whether he is “cool,” thoughtful/intelligent (maybe),” “fun,” etc., so he had better put his best foot forward. If he strikes your fancy, he makes a move and you take it from there, as far (or not-far) as you want to go. If not, you say, “look, it’s been a great night,” and maybe you pick up the tab or offer to split it (as a signal — this step is optional, by the way). And if he expresses to you that he wants sex (but you don’t), you text your girlfriend on the Uber ride home about what kind of an A-hole he is.

    Or maybe you get in a relationship with a beta. He loves to cook, clean, and pamper you. He always calls on the way home to see if you need milk or eggs. He knows what movies and music you like, and surprises you with concert tickets. The sexual tempo of your relationship? Well, it is entirely on YOUR TERMS, of course! And if he “wants it” more than you do, you text your friends back and forth on whether you should dump him, because, you know, “he’s the one with the problem,” and your girlfriend says, “you can do so much better — you can find someone who cares about your FEELINGS!” Who said he doesn’t care about your feelings? Maybe he just has a lot of desire…to be with the woman he is falling in love with!

    But, hey, that guy at the supermarket — he got your number and asked for coffee. You said “no,” but now you’re thinking about saying “maybe.” And those internet dating sites are always an option — you could go on “coffee dates” until the cows come home, and just keep filtering your choices until you find one you like. You won’t look like a weirdo for doing that, and you won’t look desperate — you’re just “exploring options” and “seeing what’s out there.” You won’t look like you’re “dating around” — you’ll just be “choosy!” And the guys, 95% of the time, will show up, on-time, excited to meet you. Ask any guy who’s trying to date how many times he has been “flaked on” or entirely stood up for would-be first dates — don’t be surprised if the answer is “more often than not” or “so much that I couldn’t even decide if the hassle was worth it.” And that’s AFTER wading through the fake profiles and AFTER having to react and pivot in emails, texts, and conversation just to reassure a potential female date that, yes, you are an OK person who is worth meeting for coffee.

    So there you go. Your girlfriend is right — that beta male in your life, he’s caring and genuine, but the “spark” is gone! Who needs him!

    What I wouldn’t GIVE to have that kind of life — people smiling back when I smile, every door being open to me, the option to act on my sexual desires with a partner of choice on my terms, at a timing of my choosing, people I have never met always prepared to give me the benefit of the doubt, high-level options for platonic socializing and/or romantic dating that cater to MY needs and MY schedule and MY life…

    “Female privilege.” You don’t know how good you have it.

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