Women should not obey men

June 20, 2007 at 3:12 pm 27 comments

I wish to speak to this notion of obedience of women required by certain men because it is not until women realize that they are no longer required to obey a man with whom they are in a relationship that they will respect themselves enough to leave an abusive man long before he inflicts his will on her to the degree that it requires her life.

obey_man.jpgI do not wish to change these types of men because they are of little consequence in the long run. Once women have opened their eyes to the fact that abusive men have absolutely no right to beat women – not even for the ridiculous notion of forcing a woman to submit to his will – that is when those men become insignificant.

Moreover, the more the system gets its act together and puts these abusive men and murderers away for good, the more these men will realize that it is not worth the time in jail to force a woman into “obedience.”

My oldest daughter recently got engaged to a wonderful young man she has known for years. The wedding will not be until late next year, but we were so caught up in the excitement that we were going over even the smallest details. This is when I wanted to know if she intended to include the word “obey” in her wedding vows.

Her emphatic answer was no. Her father and I have taught her well. Quite honestly, she is so full of personality and brains that I would hate to see any man try to control her for even one second. Luckily, she has found a man who loves her because of her personality and brains and would never want her to become anything else.

Not all women are so lucky.  Some men only want a slave to take care of him, his house, his food, his clothes – him, him, him. An eighteenth century English author named Mary Wollstonecraft once said, “…as blind obedience is ever sought for by power, tyrants and sensualists are in the right when they endeavor to keep women in the dark, because the former only want slaves, and the latter a play-thing.”

This notion of female obedience to a male master is just pure rubbish. Nonsense. Gibberish. Babble. Drivel. Jabberwocky. Skimble-skamble. Balderdash. Baloney. Bilge. Blatherskite. Piffle. Pishposh. Poppycock. Tomfoolery. Flummadiddle. Horsefeathers. Hogwash. Fiddlesticks. Malarkey. Twaddle. Windbaggery. Hooey.

You get the point.

It is a non-issue as to whether the men (those who do not like giving up their female slaves) ever embrace the fact that women are not subject to them, women do not have to submit their wills to their husbands and women are no longer required to obey men. All that is important is that women know these truths and start acting on them.

Germaine de Staël, a French novelist and literary critic who lived in the early 1800s said, “Every time a new nation, America or Russia for instance, advances toward civilization, the human race perfects itself; every time an inferior class emerges from enslavement and degradation, the human race again perfects itself.”

This is what the judicial system must keep in mind as they advance toward human perfection by ridding society of wife-beaters and wife murderers. To close this essay, I am going to provide a short poem that speaks to the notion of coerced obedience that was first written in 1555.

Your brutal goal was to make me a slave
beneath the ruse of being served by you.
Pardon me, friend, and for once hear me through:
I am outraged with anger and I rave.

— Sonnet XXIII, Oeuvres (1555)
A Book of Women Poets, Aliki and Willis Barnstone, eds., 1980

(BTW, if you want a good look at how some men still think this way, check out the post ‘Because “surrendered” sounds so much better than “abused”‘ from feministing.com).

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Entry filed under: feminism, feminist, misogyny, Stella Ramsaroop, women, women's issues. Tags: , , , , , , , , , .

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27 Comments Add your own

  • 1. agnosticatheist  |  June 20, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    Over 50% of the world’s population is either Christian or Muslim and their Holy Scriptures teach that women should obey men:

    Here’s a couple verses from the Bible:

    Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

    1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

    Here’s a verse from the Qur’an:

    4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

    aA

  • 2. Alf  |  June 21, 2007 at 12:03 am

    You can’t take that out of context though…Ephesians goes on to commission the man, it says that he will love the woman as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. That’s the part everybody leaves out…the important part. If a man is selflessly loving his wife as Christ loved the church then her submission or obedience will become a non-issue because they will both be living for the other. It’s a beautiful thing when it works like it is supposed to. Men that require obedience without providing selfless love are just jerks, it was never inteded to be like that.

  • 3. Heather  |  June 21, 2007 at 1:14 am

    **You can’t take that out of context though…Ephesians goes on to commission the man, **

    Is it taking it out of context, or simply using the verse as it’s been used for centuries?

    Because even if the following verse is taking in, in that man must love his wife as they love their own bodies, there is still the fact that woman is seen as second here. Women are submitting to the husbands, who are in turn submitting to Christ. Men and women aren’t submitting equally, because man is the head of the woman. There’s still a hierarchy at play here.

    ‘Love’ can be taking in a multitude of ways. For some, loving one’s wife is providing food/shelter/clothing, and basically making sure she stays at home at all times and disrespect her opinions. But the woman must submit and respect her husband, and it gives the impression that the man gets the last say in the relationship.

  • 4. rebecca shannon  |  June 21, 2007 at 10:49 pm

    I wonder in what “context” Martin Luter said this:

    “Men have broad shoulders and narrow hips, and accordingly they possess intelligence. Women have narrow shoulders and broad hips. Women ought to stay at home; the way they were created indicates this, for they have broad hips and a wide fundament to sit upon, keep house and bear and raise children.”

    Or this:

    “Woman must neither begin nor complete anything without man: Where he is, there she must be, and bend before him as before a master, whom she shall fear and to whom she shall be subject and obedient.”

    Alf, Ephesians is taken out of context all the time. That’s the point. If the church, both the men and the women finished the verses we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

  • 5. mark  |  June 24, 2007 at 3:19 am

    “Alf, Ephesians is taken out of context all the time. That’s the point. If the church, both the men and the women finished the verses we wouldn’t be having this conversation.”

    are you blaming christians for abusive men?

  • 6. stellar1  |  June 24, 2007 at 11:36 am

    **are you blaming christians for abusive men?**

    I know this question was not for me, but the subject at hand is not about abusive men – it is about sexism. However, both sexist and abusive men have used religion to validate their actions for thousands of years.

    Look at this new article my husband sent me yesterday. http://atheism.about.com/b/a/259189.htm

  • 7. mark  |  June 24, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    the abusive part of the post is what stuck out to me. I’m totally against hitting or beating a woman. Even though abusive men use religion to validate their actions doesn’t mean that they know Christ and follow His word. The abusive man is just claiming to know Christ like the other half the US that claim to be Christians, but enjoying worldly things. He is grasping for excuses to do what he does. He knows “of” Christ, but doesn’t walk daily with him and doesn’t know your supposed to love your wife as you love your self. Its like alf said:

    “If a man is selflessly loving his wife as Christ loved the church then her submission or obedience will become a non-issue because they will both be living for the other. It’s a beautiful thing when it works like it is supposed to. Men that require obedience without providing selfless love are just jerks, it was never inteded to be like that.”

    When a man loves his wife like he loves himself then everything works beautifully.

  • 8. rebecca shannon  |  June 24, 2007 at 7:45 pm

    Mark, how you ever got that idea out of what I posted is beyond me.

  • 9. stellar1  |  June 24, 2007 at 10:28 pm

    Mark said, “When a man loves his wife like he loves himself then everything works beautifully.”

    Mark,

    When you make this statement, you see it as noble and a good thing. When I read that statement, I see it as one more way that a man is trying to impose ownership over women. You love your body because it belongs to you and you control it. If your body ever decides to stop doing what you want it to do, you will revile it.

    The fact is that women are people – humans in their own right without the validation of men. They are not the property of men to be controlled by men.

    Your problem in this whole thing is that what you consider an extention of your body – and therefore something to be controlled by you – is not doing what you want – and you revile it.

    Too bad.

  • 10. mark  |  June 24, 2007 at 11:10 pm

    hmmm I don’t see a woman as an extention of myselft that I control. I see it as a part of me that I protect and take care of. I don’t force my wife to do anything. She trust me to make the right decisions for us. If there is a time when she feels I am making the wrong decision she lets me know and we state our differences to see if I’m missing something or if she is. There is no force or control involved. I’m not the kind of man seeks power, control, and uses force, but I am a leader and I accept my responsibilty to lead my family.

  • 11. stellar1  |  June 25, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    Mark,
    You do not have to force your wife to submit to your leadership. Thousands of years of murdering women who would not obey coupled with social and religious ostracisation for not being compliant has given you a nice situation so your wife knows better than to object to your rule over her.
    The truth is whether you are one of those men who beats his wife into submission or one who uses scripture for control, both are evil. Women do not need men to lead them. They are just as capable of leading their own lives as men are.
    Until you see how evil the rule of men is to women and to the world, you are part of the problem and not the solution.

  • 12. mark  |  June 25, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    As I stated in my previous comment “I’m not the kind of man seeks power, control, and uses force”, I do not use any kind of force for leadership. Has it ever occurred to you that many women desire leadership?!? That’s why they say “BE A MAN!”

    When I was in the dating scene I was told by many girls that I was too nice. They would say they want a take charge guy. Growing up I’ve learned what leadership is and I’m going to use it. I’m a true southern gentleman and have never hit a woman or forced her to do anything. Many southern women and probably around the whole US admire leadership in a man. Not every woman sees leadership as negatively as yourself.

    ***”The truth is whether you are one of those men who beats his wife into submission or one who uses scripture for control, both are evil.” I use neither since my wife wants me to be a leader of our family. She looks for that trait and found it with me.

    I do not see how you can say I’m part of the problem when I have not made any woman submit to me. I only see submission to a man by force evil, but thats as far as it goes. You can’t tell women how to look at men because your ideas are distorted and narrow minded. You see any woman that follows a man is forced by the man, which is not the case most of the time. Women choose, so it is done by free will.(Of course I’m not talking about the women that are forced through abusive relationships.)

  • 13. stellar1  |  June 26, 2007 at 1:10 am

    Whether through socialisation, religious dogma or abuse – all women have been forced into submission. Women who choose to be in submission do so only because they have been taught from birth that this is right in “god’s” eyes, that good girls do what they are told, and that if do not – they go to hell.

    Basically, women have been mentally, socially, politically, religiously and physically whipped into submission for thousands upon thousands of years. That is the one and only reason that women today still willingly submit to any man.

    But that is all changing very quickly.

  • 14. mark  |  June 26, 2007 at 3:02 am

    ***”Basically, women have been mentally, socially, politically, religiously and physically whipped into submission for thousands upon thousands of years. That is the one and only reason that women today still willingly submit to any man.”

    The only reason eh? What about wanting by their own free will? Is it because you wouldn’t think of doing it on your own free will that you don’t consider this an option?

    So what do you suggest? take away their freedom to choose a leader for their family and force women to choose men who share equally roles in the home? what if they don’t want that responsibility in the home?

    I know you listed several things that force women into submission, but I don’t see any way that women are being forced to want a leader.

    Are we leaders with a wife that desires us to lead them really bothering you? If so why?

  • 15. stellar1  |  June 26, 2007 at 3:16 am

    I think you are missing the point I am trying to make, Mark. There is no need for a boss in a relationship. It should be a joint effort between two people on equal grounds. There is no leader and no follower. Just two equals who choose to share their lives together.

  • 16. mark  |  June 26, 2007 at 11:37 am

    guess I am missing the point. But life isn’t always going to be equal when some want to be a follower instead of being equals. In my opinion you are fighting a lost cause because many women do not see things your way and i’ve been told by women that honestly despise feminist for saying they can’t be followers as much as the despise PETA for saying they can’t eat chicken or any other kind of meat.

    My final response: Its a lost cause because women do not feel the same way as you and never will.

    Have a good week :D and I’ll be praying for you.

    (and no I’m not the perfect christian, because I struggle as everyone else with my life, but I’m saved through Christ.)

  • 17. Heather  |  June 26, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    **My final response: Its a lost cause because women do not feel the same way as you and never will.**

    Had this attitude been followed, women never would’ve won the right to vote.

    Are there feminists who are pushy and say that women betray their kind by being “followers?” Yes. But the core of the feminist movement is for equal rights, and for women to be allowed to choose whether to follow or not, rather than being told, “You’re sinful if you don’t follow.”

    Howver, steller is raising a valid point. Many women who are followers may not have chosen that if not raised to be followers. That is what she meant by “whipped into submission.” If you are told from birth that you’re no better than Eve who was second in creation but first to sin, then that is going to affect your upbringing, and that will force one to accept a submissive position.

    In your case, you may feel as though you willingly choose to be a leader, but much of that had to come from your upbringing and your culture.

  • 18. Renali  |  June 27, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    “Even though abusive men use religion to validate their actions doesn’t mean that they know Christ and follow His word.”

    Um, have you actually read the Bible? The whole thing? Not just the pretty bits Churchs like the emphasize?

    ” There is no force or control involved. I’m not the kind of man seeks power, control, and uses force, but I am a leader and I accept my responsibilty to lead my family.”

    translation: I’m not the type of man who seek power, control, etc, I already have it!

    ” They would say they want a take charge guy.”

    They mean take charge of your own life, Mark. Not of theirs. Women don’t like Nice Guys(tm) who just want a mommy they can screw. They want adult males who don’t need or want a woman to serve them.

    “Women choose, so it is done by free will.”

    Translation: Women choose to be brainwashed into being doormats! They love it!

    And he closes with a condescending, insulting and arrogant “I’ll pray for you”.

    Its hilarious that he so desperately clings to the fallacy that women seek to be obedient and want to be submissive. He’s so clearly trying to justify his unearned privledge as a man that he needs to convince himself women seek “leaders” and don’t want to control their own lives.

    The women he speaks of as “despising” feminists are the same women who have been brainwashed since birth to believe as Mark would have them believe – that they need a “leader” because they are incapable to do it on their own, and EVIL if they want to.

    Religion is nothing more than the male ego deifying itself. There is nothing of value in it for women. Something I’m sure Mark’s wife is fast becoming aware of.

  • 19. bobray  |  November 30, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    I am a married man and I agree that women should not have to obey men. In fact, it should be the other way around. Women are superior to men so men should always obey women. The husband should protect and provide for the family, but he should at all times in every matter, without argument, be in subjection to the rightful authority of his wife over him. Pleasing her in every possible way should be his goal.

    Men should all be required to leave the political arena because women are better suited to run this world. Men have made a mess out of things and it will take the loving, stern authority of women to make the needed corrections.

  • 20. Benjamin G. Dela Cruz  |  December 4, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    “Women are superior to men so men should always obey women. The husband should protect and provide for the family, but he should at all times in every matter, without argument, be in subjection to the rightful authority of his wife over him. Pleasing her in every possible way should be his goal.”

    That is THE most idiotic comment I have EVER seen.

  • 21. Jane  |  December 14, 2007 at 5:34 pm

    Mark was very wrongly treated here. He brings up some very good points, and even though you may not agree with him, he did not take your comments out of context and make you look foolish or ignorant. I don’t know if anyone is too concerned about actually trying to consider his comments, but are very concerned about voicing their own opinions more loudly.

  • 22. Kate  |  December 14, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    I took out “obey” from my wedding vows as well, choosing the word “respect” instead.

  • 23. bobray  |  March 6, 2008 at 4:58 am

    I am a man and a I agree that men should not rule over women, but I do not believe that women are equal with men. In fact, women are superior to men. Therefore, it is women who should rule over men both in public life and private life. Men should relinquish all their rights and be given only the rights that women allow them to have. Men have ruled the world long enough and they have made a mess ot things. Men in political office should resign their posts so that women could replace them and run this country and this world to make it a better place.

    In the home, the wife should be the head of the household and the husband should completely submit to her loving authority both in and out of the bedroom. the husband’s greatest pleasure should come form pleasing and obeying his wife. The husband should protect his wife and respect his wife always remembering that she is his superior and that he belongs to her. Her life is hers to control and His life is hers to control. When men realize and accept this truth the home will be in perfect harmony and both the husband and wife as well as the rest of the familly will be happy and at peace.

    I am a married man and I already obey my wife. She is my superior and she is very kind. This makes me no less of a man. A real man knows his place and is happy with it. He loves, obeys, and protects his wife to the best of his ability.

  • 24. bobray  |  March 6, 2008 at 5:06 am

    In addition to my previous comments, I would like to say that if men were to humble themselves and take their rightful place of subjection to women then most spousal abuse would come to an end. It is true that some women abuse their husbands, but most of these were probably driven to it by the disrespect shown to them by men. If women were respected and obeyed by men as they should be, then very few women would abuse their men.

    Real men do not hit women. Real men treat women respectfully and real men obey thier women.

  • 25. bobray  |  March 6, 2008 at 5:21 am

    My comments are not idiotic. I’m sorry that Mr. Cruz felt the need to attack me like that, but I forgive him for it. I realize that most men are resistant to societal change, but I believe that the change is on its way. It may take a while but it will eventually happen.

  • 26. Ray  |  May 16, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Women should not obey men because women are superior to men. I love my wife very much and I do everything that I can to please her. Every man should learn what I have learned—that true happiness and contentment come from being totaly devoted, submitted, and obedient to a women. Women should accept nothing less from their men.

  • 27. Michelle  |  September 17, 2011 at 7:41 am

    I agree that men should obey women. Period. We put everyone on earth. It is true that women feel the need to be abusive because they were once abused in their life. I’ve always noticed that the happiest, most non-jealous men are the ones who accept their place, below the mother of their children; their wife. And as far as the bible goes, I keep in mind that is was written by chauvinistic men, and not God. .. I know i’m really late but i just came across this. Heh. Whatever. Peace and love to all! and i will soon rock your radios!!

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